40 mpg Prius vs 50 mpg European Diesel cars

There is more energy in diesel than in gas.

 

We get mid/upper 40s in our hybrid around this hilly mountain town even with
short trips and cold weather. In Phoenix it is consistently over 50 mpg in
town, running A/C in a car that carries 5 adults easily and has what is
effectively a perfectly smooth automatic transmission. Sitting at lights it
is dead quiet most of the time and on the road it's still on the quiet side
of average. In all states in the US it has the SULEV emissions rating. The
merging capability is better than any of our other cars, including our 1985
turbo Volvo (gotta hate that turbo lag!) Ours is the older, less efficient
version - and represents a technology in its infancy.

I give diesel its due: it has undeniable advantages as an auto fuel.

Mike

 

You bet - mileage that poor would disappoint any Prius owner. Ours has been
that low on some 75 mph trips where the elevation increased a lot, or when
plowing through snowy streets, but otherwise 40 is unacceptably low for a
Prius.

Mike

 

MB(Dodge/Freightliner) has been selling Sprinter Van for years now
<http://www.edmunds.com/new/research/dodge/sprinter.html>

It is the UPS Vans you see daily everywhere on the street.
MPG is around 27-28.

 

Would be harder than with a petrol - re-starting a diesel requires far more
cranking torque, so you'd need more powerful motors and its likely to cause
a jerk, unlike a petrol car that can smoothly be 'bumped' as its low
compression.[/QUOTE]

No, it would be done the way the Prius does it: spin the engine up to
speed before applying compression (that is, hold the valves open) and
fuel.

 

That for a long time Diesel engines were more economical to operate than
were gasoline engines, back when nobody gave a shit about emissions.

 

Same holds true with gas engines. When I spent some time in Vietnam the
streets of Saigon were choked with smoke from motorbikes and trucks,
many were two cycle gas engines. This was in the late sixties. I think
we've cleaned up gas and diesel engines quite a bit from those days.
--

 

A lot of people used to be very sloppy and/or careless when they filled up
and the next in line usually got some fuel on the bottom of their shoes,
which meant tracking it inside the car. Gasoline without the scent added
smells gross.
I buy clear K-1 and though I'm very careful with it I do get some on my
hands. It lingers like chlorine bleach.
I don't care how clean diesel becomes in the future, the exhaust is
typically very heavy and doesn't dissipate as easily as the fumes from
burned gasoline. I don't know a single person who enjoys being behind a
diesel, in slow traffic, on a hot summer day.

mark_

 

In message <>

Diesel is cheaper than petrol in most of Europe too, in some places
about two thirds the price of pertol, but in France at least the gap
is narrowing.

In the UK diesel is slightly more expensive, but that is becuse of
taxation differences. The rate of taxation on motor fuel is getting
on for 400%!

 

In message <3bf2e$4458f4ee$44a4a10d$>

I would speculate that one problem with a diesel hybrid would be the
extra power needed to crank the engine, remembering that this will
happen quite frequently in a hybrid. This may mean more batteries
(and hence weight) and a heavier engine anyway, meaning that the
engine will need to run more frequently than it would in a petrol
powered hybrid.

The hybrids that I have seen have clearly been designed to minimise
weight, even perhaps compromising braking and cornering performance by
fitting narrower tyres. With present technology, it is even possible
that the extra weight required by a diesel engine would cancel out the
gain in fuel economy compared to a petrol engine.

The one thing that would really make hybrids irresistable would be a
means of charging the batteries from the mains. That way, even less
fuel would be burned (at least by the car). But I doubt the oil
companies would allow that to happen.

 

In message <>

I would expect a hybrid to do well in stop start driving, since
regenerative braking saves fuel as does not running the engine when
the car is stationary. For open road driving it won't be much better
than any other petrol car, since the only saving comes from running
the engine at optimal efficiency, and against this we have the losses
in the generator and motor.

 

In message <>

Do people still beleive that propaganda. I understand a recent
summary has shown that global warming stopped in 1998, and global
temperature has been stable since then.

But the GW industry is now such a juggernaut that I doubt something
like facts will derail it. They will still be hyping up GW when the
ice age comes!

 

Hybridizing with a turbo diesel power plant is a very attractive idea - each covering the weaknesses of the other. There is no

Nope. The VW diesel uses the same starter as the gasoline model,
about 3 hp. A 20 to 50 kw motor will easily spin the diesel motor.

Lynn

 

Does the hybrid engine actually stop and restart then? I had always
assumed that it simply dropped to a tick over when not required. Having to
restart each time must be horrendous.

 

Yep. On rare occasions mine shudders slightly when shutting down but
otherwise it's not noticeable. A common hybrid experience is sitting at a
light listening to the folks around you wasting fuel for no good reason. I
corrected the subject line.

 

Actually, my Peugeot 406 HDI diesel (the common rail engine) averages 46mpg
.. This means that, to average 46, it must at times exceed 50 to counteract
higher consumption in traffic. Bear in mind though that these averages are
using the Imperial gallon, not the smaller US one. Factoring the US
gallon into my spreadsheet shows an average of 35mpg(US). I assume that
the figures quoted for the hybrid are US, not Imperial?

 

News out today (or, at least, reported today on BBC-tv) is that
the very freshest scientific calculations suggest (a) that the
probability of the changes we've seen so far being natural are
somewhere around 1% and (b) by 2050 or so we can expect global
temperature rises of 3 degC. Maybe the BBC website has more.

It gives me NO pleasure to pass on that news, FWIW. :-(

 

As you seem to realise but shrug off, the energy to charge the
batteries would still have to come from somewhere. Needing to
seek out a mains socket would involve some energy wastage, to
which add those occasions when you are caught short with a flat
battery, to which add the energy used in hauling around the much
larger (and heavier) batteries required to give a decent range.

Sorry but TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch).
And I doubt the oil companies would have much say in the matter.

 

Your understanding is in error.

Facts support it. Moreso now than ever.

 

Yes, it does stop completely, and no, it is not horrendous.